if we have a budget deficit at all, it is only fair. and you don't have to be -- again you don't have to be a republican, you can be a common sense republican to understand that this requires that the bush tax cuts not be extended for the richest 2%. it is finally getting through. and i think that, again, as richard said, you can be as clever as you want. you can make all kinds of pretensions. you can abstain, you can do whatever you want to do. this is going through. >> when we talk about abstentions and kibuki theater, that's obviously small ball. but the fact that the president and the vice president are saying we are not going to allow congress to have the power to fight another war over the debt ceiling. >> yeah. >> that to me is a real line in the sand. >> it is. >> republicans are not going to give that up without serious concessions from the democrats. what do you make of it? >> there are going to be spending cuts in this deal, right. this isn't just about tax cuts for the super wealthy. there will be spending cuts. this is wher